How to Resolve Conflicts with Friends: Mediation Tips with Devin Tucker

Tim Flynn (00:02.232)

Today, we're talking about how mediation can help. the screen popped up right in front of me. I blocked my script. I I'll just take that over again. All right, here we go again.

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Devin Tucker (00:19.966)

Okay, sounds good.

Tim Flynn (00:21.614)

45 % lay, you can't creep up to a little bit higher.

Tim Flynn (00:28.056)

There we go, now we're good. Okay, so I can skip that part. Okay, here we go.

Today on Breaking Bullying, we're talking about how mediation can help teens handle bullying, cyberbullying, and conflict in a healthier way. We'll get into it after I hit this music.

Tim Flynn (00:49.406)

Joining me today is mediator Devin Tucker. Devin, thank you so much for coming on today.

Devin Tucker (00:56.446)

Yes, I'm so happy to be here. This is such an important topic, bullying, cyberbullying, and how mediation can help with that. So thank you so much for having me.

Tim Flynn (01:07.222)

Yes, I'm very excited to talk about this topic because I never thought of using mediation as a way for teens, kids, to help manage their own conflicts. Because usually when you think of mediation, you think of big law firms, you're in a court dispute, and that's about all I knew about mediation. Never thought about it this way, so I'm really interested in hearing how this works with kids. But before we get started,

with that, what pulled you into this type of work?

Devin Tucker (01:38.133)

Yeah, so it's actually interesting your question because for me when I was growing up, I was always a problem solver. So amongst my friends and family, when conflicts would happen, I would always be finding a solution and wanting everyone to come together and talk about their feelings and finding ways to make things work. So I've always been a natural problem solver and

My intention was to be a practicing attorney, to litigate cases, to fight for justice. I actually, as a child and a teenager, did not know that mediation was an actual career. I didn't know what mediation was, but I was actively already doing mediation amongst my peers and family. so mediation, the heart of it, is really conflict resolution and how we problem solve.

So when I was in law school and I heard about the mediation program, which is called dispute resolution, I became very, very interested. And this was over 10 years ago. So mediation has been around for a long time, but about 10 years ago, it became way more popular. And as you said, most people are familiar in the term as it relates to court proceedings and litigated matters. But as I mentioned,

Mediation is just conflict resolution. So it's always been a part of who I am. And so that's what led me into it.

Tim Flynn (03:10.506)

Okay, so are mediators still lawyers? they still licensed by the

Devin Tucker (03:15.306)

So a mediator does not have to be a lawyer. Most mediators as of now, they are lawyers. You'll see a lot of retired judges that do this as a third career. And so that's really popular. And then you also see a lot of senior attorneys that retire into mediation. I took a very, very different path instead of doing all of that practicing law and litigating and then

getting into mediation, I chose it as the beginning for my career. So I did a really amazing program at Pepperdine Law. And so instead of litigating and doing all of that stuff, I jumped right into mediation. So you do not have to be an attorney to be a mediator. I think there's, for me, it's really important to talk about mediation in the context of everyday life because

Traditionally, as you mentioned, it's for litigated cases, it's for these big disputes, but the reality is there is conflict everywhere. We have conflict in our daily lives and just casual interactions with strangers at the grocery store, with our families, with people we really, really love and care about. So for me, the goal isn't just to mediate cases that are so big.

it doesn't matter how big the conflict is, it's still important to the people that are in the conflict. So I have really been trying to promote mediation in everyday life, which is also what really brings me into peer mediation and helping adolescents and teenagers with mediation skills, because these are really lifelong skills.

Tim Flynn (05:03.285)

So what brought you down that path towards your idea of working with kids and teaching them these skills?

Devin Tucker (05:11.392)

Yeah, so I think if we can, you know, it's when I was growing up, I wanted to change the world and, you know, bring peace to everyone. And you hear that it's really one by one. So it's it's by each person that you work with. And I believe that teaching conflict resolution skills to the youth, it's just going to make our community and, you know, everyone stronger because they really are the future. I think that these are.

basic skills that can be used in any situation. So it can be, you know, after a conflict, it can be during a conflict, and it can be, you know, before a conflict even happens, which is really, I think, another reason why mediation and education of conflict resolution is so important because you begin to change your mindset of how you are working with people, how you relate to other people.

and how other people may be relating to you. So sometimes, you can even avoid certain conflicts from playing out fully, or you can address them before they get worse. I think that's also one of the benefits of mediation, because a lot of times, a conflict may arise, and then there's all these other options that people have after that. Maybe they hold a grudge.

Maybe they go and talk to other people about it and other people become involved. You know, there's all these different things that can escalate the conflict. And so I think, you know, thinking of mediation at the beginning of a conflict can be really effective.

Tim Flynn (06:51.413)

I like that. And a lot of people will tend to confuse conflict with bullying and conflict's normal. And I discussed this topic before, probably about a couple years ago on the show, but quickly, can you give us a definition of what conflict and what bullying the difference is?

Devin Tucker (07:07.741)

Yes, yes, that's a great point. as you mentioned, conflict happens in our daily life. You know, a misunderstanding, miscommunication, it happens all the time. Bullying is actually, you know, when someone is attacking someone else or using inappropriate language or action that causes harm on someone. that is the difference.

at least in my opinion, of conflict and bullying. the world that we live in now, there is a lot of bullying. When I was growing up, there's bullying. The problems haven't changed, but what has changed is the access and people being able to access other people, access the internet, and do these things. So, like I said, I was bullied growing up.

I know there's times when I was even probably a bully as well. It happens in so many different ways, whether kids are aware of it or not. It really depends, right? Because, you know, for my case, which I didn't see it as bullying when I was growing up, but I was very advanced than some of my peers. And so, you know, for example, sometimes if we would be figuring out a math problem or something and

I would just be like, you know, why don't you guys understand this? It's so simple, you know, or something like that. So in my parent teacher conferences, my teachers would tell my parents this and, you know, they would say, she's very smart. And I didn't realize how I was treating other people and how that was making other people feel because in my mind, I was just like, you know, this makes sense. Like, you know, why doesn't it make sense to you guys?

Tim Flynn (09:02.079)

Yeah, you're encouraging them. It's like a way of encouraging them, but they weren't seeing it that way.

Devin Tucker (09:03.325)

Devin Tucker (09:08.755)

Right, exactly. And so I think the concept of bullying when you're talking about adolescents is very interesting because, you know, they're at a critical point where they're understanding how to make decisions, making choices, trying to make good choices, and still finding themselves and understanding who they are. So I think bullying, you know, I don't think that adolescents necessarily are inherently trying to bully other people.

when certain things happen, but it's about education and resources and understanding how to deal with these emotions. So for me, you know, being frustrated because I wanted to move on to the next problem, that was the emotion that I was feeling is frustration. And I was then taking that out on my peers, which then made them feel, you know,

left behind or that I was being bossy or inconsiderate, so it hurt their feelings. So I think when working with adolescents, I really try to break down the feelings of, you know, what is happening in the bullying, because a lot of times the person doing the bullying, they may not necessarily realize the effect that they're having on the other person. So I think that's really important.

Tim Flynn (10:33.237)

Yeah. So what is like the biggest conflict you see with kids in school today?

Devin Tucker (10:41.671)

Yeah, so that's a really good question. And I thought about this. I don't think any of the problems have changed. think having issues with friends, relationships, competition, all of these factors, family dynamics, socioeconomic dynamics, diversity issues, I think these are all the same issues, going through puberty, identity.

I think the difference now is the access and the ability to communicate in different ways on different platforms. I think that is one of the biggest issues because now with even just social media and AI and people being able to have different personas online and these types of things, I think that is really the biggest issue is the access.

not just social media, but even just the internet alone, you know, being able to look up anything, a scenario in your mind, just all these different things. So I would say the access is really a huge problem. And then with that being said, I think people are communicating less face to face and they're doing more communication via technology, which it's just...

Tim Flynn (11:46.925)

Yeah.

Devin Tucker (12:06.406)

it's just very difficult. mean, even us as adults, when we're having conversations via text message or even email, things can be miscommunicated. I really can't imagine, you know, for me, I got Instagram when I was in college. So I can't imagine having social media, you know, as an adolescent or teenager.

Tim Flynn (12:29.641)

Yeah, and one thing that drives me crazy about social media is that we got influencers whose whole platform is to bully another person or bully a group of people. it's like, why do we people support this stuff? It drives me crazy because kids are seeing this and they're not understanding what the context is. Even though maybe like say right now it's all about politics, you know, is it right still? No, it's not.

Devin Tucker (12:47.262)

Yeah.

Devin Tucker (12:56.765)

Yeah.

Tim Flynn (12:59.275)

But you see it on social media, we see it on the news. It's crazy, kids just can't figure it out. Okay, is this okay? If I don't like somebody, I can just go call them on social media, which now leads into cyber bullying. And why is cyber bullying so intense more than in-person bullying, versus me calling you a name in person?

Devin Tucker (13:13.118)

Right.

Devin Tucker (13:26.642)

Right. It's just about the human contact and how we relate to the senses. And I'll talk a little bit more about that later when I kind of discuss some of my tools that I give to people when dealing with conflicts. But when you're behind the screen, even if your face is not showing, if you're just texting, no one can see you. No one can feel your energy or your aura. So really,

there's not a lot of fear there. And I think that people, you know, they get this silent courage when it's like, you know, they're behind a screen, they feel protected in a way that when you're in person, if you're looking someone face to face, and it's very difficult to look someone in the face and intentionally offend them and hurt them. It's just not inherently how we are wired to be.

by using social media, mean, if we have a Instagram handle or whatever it is, that's a persona of itself, right? Because Instagram is not reality. So if someone's creating a persona on Instagram, then they're choosing to be, you know, I wanna be this way, I wanna be that way, but it's not reality. So I think, you know, people can have these alternate personas. And so it allows them to

You know, it's kind of like what I talk about with AI. AI is great in a lot of ways, but the intuition, the intuitive intelligence is not there. So I think it all just comes down to, you know, being able to disconnect from actually connecting with a person. So therefore it's very easy to be hurtful and to not be careful of your word choice.

when you're using online platforms.

Tim Flynn (15:27.639)

Okay, yeah, so you talked about you have some tools. I want to into that right now. So, like, do you go into schools and work with kids or I guess how does your program work?

Devin Tucker (15:42.823)

Yes, that's a great question. MCLA, we are getting into the field of peer mediation. We currently are partnered with an organization, Western Justice Center, who has been around for a very, very long time. And they provide a lot of educational opportunities for schools and work with schools directly. At this time, I am really doing it.

on a one-to-one basis. So schools that are reaching out to me or opportunities that I have to speak to students, but I am working on some curriculum and a book actually to help students and to help adolescents with conflict resolution. I think that mediation, there's the basic elements of mediation, but I think the work of conflict resolution, especially dealing with adolescents is a little bit different.

because the dynamics are just quite different. So right now it's really on a case-by-case basis, but I am looking to move into working with more schools and programs that are interested in doing this work. think what I would love to see is being able to provide these trainings, provide information and workshops, and then for it to be implemented in the schools.

where they have mediation programs where when there are conflicts students can use a peer mediation program as opposed to just going to the principal's office and then being disciplined without having a chance to facilitate a mediation type of process.

Tim Flynn (17:28.557)

So with kids, I have five girls, the way. Two are adults now, and three are younger. And I'm thinking about Georgia. She's like my middle child, sort of. So how do you explain to a kid the difference between conflict and bullying? Because I feel like kids always think a disagreement is a form of bullying when it's just a conflict. What's the first step you can help teach a child?

Devin Tucker (17:33.22)

wow. Wow.

Devin Tucker (17:41.15)

I love that name.

Tim Flynn (17:58.86)

that this is actually a conflict.

Devin Tucker (18:01.244)

Yeah, I think that's a really good question. And I think kind of some simple steps that you can take, like if you are talking to your child, for example, is to just have them pause for a second. I always use a grounding exercise where I say, you know, think of one thing you can see, think of one thing you can taste, think of one thing you can hear, think of one thing you can smell. What that does is it just allows

you or whomever to become present. So a lot of times when we are talking about a situation, our mind goes to the situation. So we become elevated, we go back into that moment. Our emotions are triggered back up. with kind of grounding yourself to realize, okay, I'm not in that moment anymore, I'm here. That's kind of the first thing, which is just really a sensory exercise.

Then I would say to ask, you know, ask Georgia, how did this make you feel? How are you feeling about this? The reason that we do that is because a lot of times, you know, whatever, if it's a conflict, if it's bullying, we want to address how it made someone feel because a lot of times, like you said, is it just a conflict or is someone intentionally bullying us? So once we start talking about the feelings and we're having the conversation,

You as the parent, you can then help your child to kind of understand, you know, depending on what it is, well, you know, that's going to happen sometimes. Like, you know, let's just say your child plays sports, you know, and there was a game and maybe, you know, your daughter's team lost and she was feeling really bad about something. And maybe, you know, one of the teammates had...

said something like, you know, we should have won. I worked really hard. Like, this is not my fault. And maybe your daughter could have internalized that as, you know, her teammate making a comment that she felt like, maybe if, you know, she messed up in the game or she made a mistake, that that general comment of that they should have won, it was directed at her. Once you start having the conversation of, you know, how is she feeling and

Devin Tucker (20:20.559)

she says, I'm feeling embarrassed or I'm feeling ashamed or I'm feeling, you know, let down that we lost. And you could say, you know, sweetie, that's normal. Like you're not going to win every game. It's not your fault. You know, it takes a whole team and you you played your best and you're going to, you know, keep practicing and getting better. you know, so you can encourage and reinforce the fact that, you know, this

this team member was not intentionally saying something to hurt your daughter's feeling. Now, obviously, if the context was different and the teammate said something intentionally to your daughter, for example, you made a terrible pass, like this is all your fault, you had the winning opportunity, you had the winning shot, and you messed up, and now we lost, that's a different conversation, right? So then at that point,

Tim Flynn (21:15.148)

Yeah.

Devin Tucker (21:16.209)

you're having the conversation of, you you're now talking about how different people can be. And sometimes in this world, you know, people can be very mean, they can say things to us because they're unhappy or they're not able to control their emotions. So as you can see, like that is a form of bullying. If someone is, you know, intentionally saying something that is harmful to

your daughter versus the first scenario where, you know, it's just a general frustration and, you know, people are upset when they lose, you know, that's just kind of natural reality. that's just kind of one example, but I think as parents, just really taking your child through the experience and then using your wisdom and your experience with life to try to decipher those things because

Tim Flynn (21:55.072)

Yeah.

Devin Tucker (22:14.109)

Like you said, there are a lot of conflicts that arise and we have to teach our children how to deal with conflicts, but also know the difference between bullying because we don't want to make our children feel like they can't stand up for themselves or if someone is harming them that there's not tools available to deal with that.

Tim Flynn (22:42.857)

Yeah, and you you made a good point. I shouldn't say you didn't make a good point, but you gave me a good idea though. This is why I think peer mediation should be taught in schools and why you should be in schools more, because if kids can learn these skills, for example, on a sports team, maybe that child will learn how to use their words a little bit differently to not make that kid feel a certain way to maybe just stop a conflict altogether.

Devin Tucker (23:11.228)

Right.

Tim Flynn (23:12.365)

You know, I think it's just giving kids more tools to interact with each other, stuff that they can't do online, stuff that they have to learn how to handle in person. Because choosing your words, I mean, I'm a very blunt person, so sometimes I just say it how I feel, and maybe that could be hurtful for somebody else. And you know, I've learning over the years, like, choose my words wisely. But I think that's a really good reason why we need more of this.

Devin Tucker (23:21.019)

in person.

Tim Flynn (23:41.837)

training in schools. Start with sports teams with kids. So that way when the kids get home from school as a parent I don't have to deal with it.

Devin Tucker (23:51.237)

Right, exactly. Yeah, it all goes to education because what I've seen is doing different programs with students and asking them the questions that you're asking me. You know, what are the problems that you're seeing? What are some of the ways that you're dealing with the conflict? And you see that students are really engaged in this conversation. And so I think it really does come down to education because when

something clicks in someone's mind that maybe they never considered that there's a different way to go about this, it does stay with you. And so I totally agree. I think, you know, sports as an example, you know, it's a great opportunity to learn, like you said, how to interact with other people. And it's a great, you know, it's a great platform where conflicts do arise because you're in a competitive sport. It's the nature.

of sports to be competitive, have camaraderie, but then to have a team and to have sportsmanship. I think in those types of instances, it's great if there are programs where you can talk about, how do you deal with losing? How do you deal with being frustrated with your teammates? How do you deal with being frustrated with your coaches? All of these things that are

Tim Flynn (25:11.65)

Mm-hmm.

Devin Tucker (25:17.04)

real conflicts and that it's okay that these conflicts are happening, but how we choose to deal with them and interact with other people is really important.

Tim Flynn (25:29.269)

Yeah, I just got an idea as we're talking here, but I want to go back to a question I asked you earlier just to help remember. Are you in some schools right now teaching mediation to kids or that's your goal to get into soon?

Devin Tucker (25:43.793)

Yes, that's a great question. It's my goal to get into it. So I do programs here and there where I'm asked to speak to students. And so I'll do a short one hour presentation on some basic conflict resolution tools. But I would like to do more in-depth work, really working with kids one-on-one because I...

I believe a lot in restorative justice as well, and I've done a lot of work in restorative justice. For a lot of adolescents, it's really one conversation or education that can really be the tipping point between them going down one path or the other. Unfortunately, bullying is a very traumatic effect.

Tim Flynn (26:34.797)

Mm-hmm.

Devin Tucker (26:35.194)

And a lot of times there is consistent bullying. so, you know, a child or a teenager that is being bullied, oftentimes then they react in an adverse way or it may take them down an adverse path. I think, you know, for me, I try to speak about my experiences and I think it's a good one. You know, what I shared about me being

you know, a bully sometimes to friends because they just weren't understanding things as fast as I was. But I think that's a great example because it's a very real scenario. you know, my friends, they didn't stop being friends with me because I was doing this, but it affects your relationships. And so I think all of that is important. And, you know, obviously now,

Tim Flynn (27:24.577)

Yeah.

Devin Tucker (27:30.894)

As an adult, I've learned so much from all those experiences. And then when you hear how it made someone else feel, you feel really, really bad. So I remember having those conversations. I remember making my friends cry and that made me feel really bad. So now I'm not a bully as an adult, but I think having those experiences.

And being able to talk about it is really important because if I didn't understand that, you know, I could be walking around now still doing the same thing. So, yeah.

Tim Flynn (28:06.861)

Yeah. So my idea, so I have a large listener base out LA where you're from, the LA area. That's where majority of my listeners are at, LA, Australia, and UK for some reason. with schools, there's huge issues with discipline. Even in my hometown, we have discipline issues in our schools. And they're trying to pass different ways to handle discipline.

no matter what they do doesn't seem to work. It'd be really cool to see you get in touch with a teacher at a school. And for a first case study, if you taught kids mediation skills, like one classroom, would that decrease bullying and behaviors in class? Because some of these tools kids are not going learn at home. I would really love to see you do that and see what the results are, because that would be really cool. Because you could possibly almost, you know.

Devin Tucker (28:49.306)

Yes.

Tim Flynn (29:04.619)

reduced bullying by a lot of kids just had these tools to work with. Because I feel like some kids, you say something like when you were younger, you said something that really wasn't bullying, but to our kid, they took it that way. If they could just step back for a minute and say, OK, was she encouraging me or was she calling me stupid? Kids need to know how to do that. I think it'd be really cool if you could get into a classroom, like your first case study.

Devin Tucker (29:19.387)

Yeah.

Devin Tucker (29:34.127)

Yes.

Tim Flynn (29:34.951)

and track it for a year, did behaviors increase or did they decrease? I think that would be a very valuable tool.

Devin Tucker (29:42.404)

Yes, I love that idea. And you know, it just made me think it's like, if I were to pitch that, I mean, who's really going to say no, I know that, you know, there's all these politics with schools and all of this stuff. But I think now with being able to do things via zoom, it's very easy to create something like that and to

have these conversations because I was, I'm always super surprised that even when I do a one hour session with the group of students, how impactful that really is. And so I think you're absolutely right. And schools, they're overwhelmed with so much stuff. So they don't really have the resources to teach this. But I also think it's very different when you have an external person coming in and talking to you about.

Tim Flynn (30:22.327)

Yeah.

Devin Tucker (30:32.495)

these issues as opposed to having your teacher or someone at school because it feels like authority. So I think students are less inclined to really take away things sometimes when it's from a person of authority or someone that they're super familiar with. And so I think I love that idea and I would love to do that.

Tim Flynn (30:41.121)

Yeah.

Tim Flynn (30:57.429)

I think schools, okay, so from my town, for example, my friend's on the school board and I read things in the paper and I hear from our teachers too that behaviors are like the biggest problem. Behaviors, and from, teach martial arts, from parents, bullying's a huge issue. How valuable would it be for a school though to decrease behaviors, to decrease bullying?

Devin Tucker (31:19.13)

Yeah.

Tim Flynn (31:24.619)

You know, you're gonna bring students in. So it's like a selling point for a school. like, hey, we'll come in work with your kids. You can start with a class. But it has to be something, not just a one-time thing, like maybe once a month, but you're teaching kids how to peer peer mediate to each other. So eventually, you're not there all the time. These kids, you can train the kids to be the teachers, and they can teach it, they build it on. Because they have programs like that for like mental health, for like suicide prevention.

Devin Tucker (31:32.421)

Yeah.

That's the.

Devin Tucker (31:41.38)

Exactly.

Tim Flynn (31:54.638)

let's go for conflict, go for bully prevention, let's teach kids conflict resolution skills. And I like what your program's goals are. It's like, this is a great idea.

Devin Tucker (32:05.378)

Yes, I absolutely love that. And I think you hit on a main point to do something consistent, which I think, again, you know, because Zoom is available, it's very easy to do that. And, you know, I love to use this scenario of a group chat amongst, you know, three friends and one of the friends shares a photo of the other friend that he thinks is funny. But the person that the photo is of, they don't find it funny.

Then you have the third person that's in the middle of it and how do you deal with this conflict? When I use this scenario, everyone had experienced this, which I thought was very interesting. it is, with talking about the scenario, really helped the kids. They had amazing solutions of how to deal with it. They were all different. And so what it taught me is that we inherently, we want to resolve.

We don't want to hurt other people. it's just like having these conversations, it becomes so important because it helps students to realize that, you're thinking about this too. I'm thinking about this as well. And we realize that we all mutually are not here to be in conflict or to harm other people. But I think, know, bullies, a lot of times they're bullied by other people. It's just a circular effect.

Tim Flynn (33:25.869)

Yeah.

Devin Tucker (33:34.619)

So, you know, I think you're right is if I were to do that, you have no idea who it might touch. You know, it's not just for the kids that are the bullies. It's for everyone because like you said, depending on what position that you're in, you may be the bully or you may be getting bullied. So I love your idea.

Tim Flynn (33:35.053)

Yeah.

Tim Flynn (33:59.404)

Yeah, and back in May of 2025, I went to a school and I did my cry child bullying seminar. And the kids all knew what bullying was. They knew it's important to be kind. I feel like the piece that they're missing is how to handle conflict, how to take a step back and breathe. Kind of like you told me about, do it at Georgia, step back, what can you feel, and what can you taste now?

Devin Tucker (34:12.049)

Yeah.

Tim Flynn (34:26.029)

That's important stuff that kids need to do because you can avoid so much issues down the road. Because right now, the biggest complaint I hear from parents is that teachers don't listen or school doesn't listen. OK, that's a complaint. Let's teach kids to do this themselves at an early age. If you teach them at an early age, they're going to build these skills up and they're going to become these awesome adults when they're older because we started teaching this stuff. We started enforcing it because kids know it's not

Devin Tucker (34:35.963)

.

Devin Tucker (34:42.178)

Exactly.

Tim Flynn (34:54.923)

it's not right to bully other kids. But they're going to do it anyways because their friends see it. So maybe that kid knows how to, hey, hey Johnny, that wasn't nice calling so and so a name. Why'd you do that? Teaching kids how to approach their friends for picking on other kids. So what

Devin Tucker (34:57.071)

brand. Exactly. Yes.

Devin Tucker (35:12.097)

Exactly. That's a huge thing and that's why I like to use that group chat scenario with a third person because that happens more than anything. know, the peer pressure, you know, you see your friend doing something, bullying someone else, but then you don't want to necessarily address your friend because they may get mad at you or then they're going to say, what's wrong with you or you're not cool or, you know,

you know, those are very common scenarios. But I think when you educate students, then they become empowered. And I think that's the beauty of teenagers and adolescents is that they can become really empowered. And so now they're able to spread this and teach other people how to do this type of work. And that's one of the things that we are seeing. And there's, you know, there's leaders everywhere. So I think that

Like you said, just having the education is a really important thing.

Tim Flynn (36:13.953)

Yeah, and I think you got such a wonderful program, and I hope you get into schools, because this is like, I would love to see you do that classroom case study, just to see, then you guys just have it for proof, because you know the numbers, you know the behaviors should go down, the bullying should decrease, you know, but you need proof that works, and I think that would just be something when you approach schools, because schools are hard up for money.

Devin Tucker (36:21.627)

Thank

Devin Tucker (36:26.427)

Yeah, data, yeah.

Devin Tucker (36:33.613)

Yes.

Devin Tucker (36:43.161)

Yeah.

Tim Flynn (36:43.373)

It's like, hey, you have people leaving your schools because of these issues. Think about, we could turn your school into this with kids coming back. But it's all about money. Unfortunately, it's this time of age. It's about money and time. And you have to show that value. I see the value in it. Do other people see the value in it? I don't know. But I think that a few case studies here or there might help out. Those are just my ideas.

Devin Tucker (36:51.898)

Yeah.

Devin Tucker (37:12.931)

Yes, I love your ideas and I think that people do see the value of it and I'm going to think more into this because I do think with technology, you know, there's a simpler way of doing this where, you know, money is not so much of an issue. And I was just thinking when I was in high school, I think there was an organization called the kind company or the nice company. It was two ladies and they came to our high school and

Tim Flynn (37:13.207)

But.

Devin Tucker (37:42.021)

They just talked about being kind and being nice. And this was before social media, but they were going across the country doing this work, which is amazing. But now with technology, I could make a large impact without having to physically be everywhere. It's still nice to be in person too. And I would love to do that in my local community. But you just have me thinking of various ways of doing it.

Tim Flynn (38:00.6)

Yeah.

Devin Tucker (38:11.995)

And I think people are very interested because the reality is too that adults are getting bullied as well. There's so much bullying going on. It's not just with students. And then like yourself as a parent, how do I handle this? Because I think also if your child is seriously getting bullied as a parent, you don't like that. So you may...

want to do other things that are also not appropriate. So it just becomes this bigger thing. Or maybe there's cases where students aren't talking about that they're being bullied and then you have just a lot of harm happening behind closed doors. So I think that education is so important because it makes everyone be able to have the same information. It's not just for this group of people or

you know, students that maybe have parents that have the time to teach them this, everyone is different.

Tim Flynn (39:17.803)

Yeah, so what type of skills are kids going to learn from mediation that's going to stick with them for life?

Devin Tucker (39:24.878)

Yes, it's really how to interact in our relationships. That's really the basis of it and how to deal with things when they're uncomfortable, when a problem comes up. So these are skills, like I said, that we deal with every day. So that's why I think they're just really important skills.

Tim Flynn (39:50.03)

Yeah, so it's because I'm talking to them, like I'm thinking of, for one, social skills. They're going to improve their social skills. They will improve their body language, how you stand, how you talk to people, how you look at people. One of the things I teach kids is if you're taller than somebody and you're talking to them, to their eye level, especially if you're giving them directions, because people don't want to feel talked down to. Like, I'm up here talking to them, like,

Devin Tucker (40:04.588)

Yes.

Devin Tucker (40:11.034)

Yes.

Yes.

Tim Flynn (40:19.487)

you know, get to the eye level. If you're having a hard conversation with somebody, gotta bring something up that's, hey, I didn't like what you said, put your hand, and you're good friends with them first, make sure you know your friendship with them. Put your hand on their shoulder and tell them the hard conversation. So many things you can teach kids. To me, it just sounds simple, but it's like, why aren't we doing this right now? And I think your program, your idea, the mediation, I never thought of that until,

Devin Tucker (40:21.05)

Right.

Devin Tucker (40:31.992)

Yeah. Right.

Tim Flynn (40:48.641)

you contacted me, like that's such a great idea. Devon, where can people, load a question here, what projects do you have coming up and what events are you doing and where can people find more about you?

Devin Tucker (40:51.757)

Yes.

Devin Tucker (41:04.984)

Yes, so I work at the Mediation Center of Los Angeles. We're a nonprofit mediation center and we do mediation services for civil cases, family cases, non-litigated cases, community disputes, but we also have the MCLA Academy and that is all about education and there's three branches of it.

And one of the branches is for peer mediation and educating students on conflict resolution. So you can go to mediationla.org to find out more information. I do have programs that are coming up in early 2026. So stay tuned for those programs. We are doing a partnership with Western Justice Center. They have a PMI Institute. It's a peer mediation institute.

that they are fully putting together. MCLA is just supporting them with providing mediators to be mentors. So that is an amazing event that's happening in Los Angeles on February 10th and 17th through Western Justice Center. So I encourage people to look into that if they're interested. It's a really, really great introductory to peer mediation. It's not a full mediation, peer mediation training, but it's a

introduction to it, which is just phenomenal as well. But also I am looking to do this work more in schools, working with Brotherhood Crusade, who is in the Los Angeles area. They work with a lot of schools. So I am really looking forward to doing more of that work. So yes, that's where people can

Tim Flynn (42:48.415)

You know, how cool would it be to go to a school to bring my kid to a school? Because right now, schools, there's choices everywhere these days. Where to find out, hey, if your kid has an issue, we have a peer mediation group that can help your child out. How cool would that be? It's like, teachers don't have to stress off the teachers, stress off their principal, who probably gets hundreds of calls. How cool would that be to have these group of kids trained in all these schools?

Devin Tucker (42:56.185)

Yes.

Devin Tucker (43:10.724)

Yeah.

Devin Tucker (43:15.674)

Yeah, it would be amazing too because I talk to parents sometimes and they're just, they don't know what to do. They may not understand why their child, if their child is kind of the one that's having the behavioral issues, they're great parents, they're a great family, they love and care about their child and they're doing everything that...

they can think of to help their child, but for whatever reason, they're still having behavioral issues. This is the perfect opportunity. think that kids need, or students, adolescents, kids, they need a space that they feel comfortable to talk about what's going on. And a lot of times that's not with your parents, it's not with your teachers, but it could be, like you said, in a trusted peer mediation group.

And that sort of thing. And even if they're maybe not, you know, talking about what's going on, just hearing solutions and ways to deal with it, it makes a huge impact.

Tim Flynn (44:17.357)

Mm-hmm.

Tim Flynn (44:21.547)

Yeah, and plus that child at school is having someone listen to them, because I feel like that's the biggest part that we're missing is no one's listening to the kid who's being picked on. And having another peer do it besides a grown-up, because grown-ups aren't cool, I I thought that way too. That, you know, the stress level on kids would be so helpful. Devin, where can people find that website again? I know you mentioned the name, but what's the website where people can get in touch with you, find out more about your programs?

Devin Tucker (44:35.565)

Yes. Right.

Devin Tucker (44:42.595)

Yeah.

Devin Tucker (44:51.533)

Yes, it's mediationla.org.

Tim Flynn (44:56.653)

Okay, and for those listening on your favorite podcast platform, that link will be in the show description. People on YouTube, you saw go across the screen. Devin, you have any final thoughts you wanna add before we close out?

Devin Tucker (45:08.953)

Well, also my Instagram handle where I put information about stuff like this as well, it's resolution. So I put a lot of helpful tips and tools on there as well. So that's another great resource. But I just think that there's so much more to come. I'm really passionate about this work. And so I do want to continue to work with students and work with schools.

Tim Flynn (45:15.094)

Yes.

Devin Tucker (45:35.873)

I think it will take some time to change the culture, but I do feel like, you know, unfortunately there's been so much harm that's done from bullying in the last five years and even, you know, just a lot of harm. And so that's why I'm really passionate. It's too unfortunate to have, you know, accidents happen and people in harm's way because of bullying and...

a lot of those situations, it does come from bullying and cyber bullying. So I think that this is a really, really important topic. And I think that parents are really looking for a solution. So I just commend all the parents out there that are raising children in these difficult times.

Tim Flynn (46:24.151)

Okay, Devin, again, I wanna thank you for coming on my podcast and I really hope, stay in touch with me, let me know if you ever find that school, classroom, whatever. I would love to hear those results later on, so.

Devin Tucker (46:31.957)

Yes, I will.

Yeah, thank you so much, Tim. This has been awesome.

Tim Flynn (46:40.587)

You bet, Devon. Have a great day.

Devin Tucker (46:42.327)

You too. Thank you.